Mike Pence rolls Tim Kaine in their debate. Will it help Donald Trump?

The good news for Donald Trump from Tuesday night’s vice presidential debate: If viewers thought either candidate would listen to their VP, they’d have to give a clear edge to Mike Pence.

The bad news: LOL, no one actually thinks this.

Pence, the Indiana governor trying to reassure conservatives as Trump’s running mate, delivered a crisp, calm and collected performance Tuesday in the face of a childish onslaught of interruptions by Democratic Sen. Tim Kaine. The Virginian hardly let Pence get through a single answer without trying to speak over him — usually to deliver an obviously canned one-liner of the type that is becoming a hallmark of the Clinton/Kaine team in these debates — and very likely paid a price with voters, who surely thought he came off looking like a jerk.

Elusive evidence that Tim Kaine did let Mike Pence simply speak during their debate Tuesday night. One time, anyway. (Photo by Win McNamee/Getty Images)

Elusive evidence that Tim Kaine did let Mike Pence simply speak during their debate Tuesday night. One time, anyway. (Photo by Win McNamee/Getty Images)

Despite the interruptions, as well as a poor job by moderator Elaine Quijano (who unlike Lester Holt in last week’s debate spent too much time trying to rein in the candidates instead of letting them set the pace), this contest offered far more substance and a brighter line between the two sides’ governing philosophy than Trump and Clinton managed in their first showdown. From foreign policy to abortion, we got to hear two very different arguments for how the country should proceed.

But if Pence won on points, the reason he didn’t win in a KO is because Kaine was adept at peppering him with some of the outrageous things Trump has said while campaigning over the past year-plus. Pence on his own was great; Pence having to defend Trump was … well, no worse but no better than anyone at defending the often indefensible (for example: Trump’s derogatory comments about John McCain’s having been a prisoner of war).

And here we get to the limitations of what a running mate can do in such a forum. Pence was an able spokesman for conservatism and traditional GOP positions, but this year that doesn’t necessarily mean he represented the GOP nominee very well. Kaine, conversely, made no one wish he was the one at the top of the Democratic ticket. But in poorly representing himself, he helped Clinton’s cause by repeating as many negative things about Trump as humanly possible — that was the point of all those interruptions, after all.

To use a different sports analogy, Pence was like a running back who squeezes through as many small holes as possible before they close on him. But Kaine was like the guy who runs headlong down the field on a kickoff and flings his body at the return team’s “wedge” so someone else can make the play.

Given that it’s the top of the ticket that ultimately matters, does that benefit Trump or Clinton more? Again, if people are interested in the team the nominee has built, Trump should benefit. But if Pence did a little too well, especially in comparison with Trump last week, it’s possible that diminishes the nominee rather than building him up.

Most likely, this vice presidential debate will prove relatively inconsequential next to the presidential debates. For Trump to truly profit from Pence’s performance, he will need to study it as an example of how a skilled debater approaches these events. Will Trump’s ego allow for that? Perhaps we’ll find out Sunday evening.


More from the AJC: When Pence came to Cobb County

… and Kaine came to Gwinnett.

Reader Comments 0

415 comments
lvg
lvg

New headline:


Mike Pence gets rolled  by Donald Trump.

AndyManUSA#45
AndyManUSA#45

What a yuge win for the Trumpster.


Where to begin?


Do you miniature people now see how little your locker room trash talk video means? It wasn't even a subject. There are so many more important things to deal with in the real world, a real world which you do not belong to.


For the most part, this was a fairly moderated debate, other than Martha Radish's flipping out about Aleppo episode.  I was wondering if Aleppo was a US city on the southern border and the Huns were at their gate. George W Bush saw many of the same things in Saddam Hussein's Iraq and did something about it and he got nailed to the wall over it. Now Martha Radish wants to start a war with Russia over some 5 year old foreigner sitting in ambulance? Talk about your selective outrage.


For 30 years, and I quote Donald Trump, hillary has been whining and moaning about the exact same issues, but yet, somehow, they never get corrected. Even she can only point out that she started the children's defense fund, but who is she defending the children against? Children walking down the street in Chicago get shot to death all the time, where was the defense fund? Children all over America have parents that are out of work and struggling to pay the bills, where is the children's defense fund when they need it?


Trump killed your candidate tonight, but I know you miniature people will get right back to your locker room trash talk video, like it some how even matters.


One last thought, there was only one candidate that had an American Flag pin on their lapel, which one do you think that was?

SGTGrit
SGTGrit

Haven't seen Bruno on here. Hope all is well. Comm check Bruno, as soon as it's convenient. over

SGTGrit
SGTGrit

The Trump children seem to remain absolutely loyal to him as their father. Of course the numbskulls on here disregard that fact because their handlers tell them to do so.

AndyManUSA#45
AndyManUSA#45

After allowing gay marriage and transgenderism to become mainstream under their watch, isn't it wonderful that the establishment republicans have finally found their moral breaking point, over spoken words?



lvg
lvg

@IReportYouWhine You probably still hate Megyn Kelly for asking the obvious about the Con man's attitudes towards women. Cons hate women so much they blamed Kelly for Trump's reaction to her questions.

That woman deserves a Pulitzer for taking on Ailes, Rove, Trump and Hannity. Not your kind of Fox News lady.

MarkVV
MarkVV

@IReportYouWhine Isn't it telling when the Trump supporters here, like IReportYouWhine, cannot find the decency even to denounce Trump's spoken words? 

SGTGrit
SGTGrit

I think it is deplorable how these grubers fawn over Bill Clinton and condemn Trump, when Clinton, by far has been the sexual predator and woman abuser.

MarkVV
MarkVV

@SGTGrit Go back couple of decades and vote against Bill.

SGTGrit
SGTGrit

@MarkVV @SGTGrit 

You don't get it, do you? Not surprising, a vote for Hillary, will be a vote for a Bill Clinton 3rd. term. Hillary, will be Bill's puppet in office. Well, maybe I'm wrong, maybe you do get it, maybe a third term for Bill, is what you really do want.  If that guess is indeed true, it makes you more than a hypocrite, it makes you a liar.

MarkVV
MarkVV

@SGTGrit @MarkVV You comment again shows your total metal incompetence. To babble something about “Bill Clinton 3rd term,” 16 years after his presidency, is already a sign of insanity. Not only is his presidency viewed very favorably by most people, but a suggestion that 16 years can pass without substantial change in the economic and foreign affair conditions, so that somebody could just “continue” the policies, is preposterous. And all the comments by Trump and his supporters regarding Bill Clinton have been about his sexual misbehavior, not about his policies. And finally, if I indeed wanted Bill Clinton 3rd term, whatever you mean in your insane argument, how would that make me a liar? Lying about what? You write such idiotic comments, you should be in an institution.

Eye wonder
Eye wonder

@SGTGrit

You've convinced me, SGTGrit - I will never vote for Bill Clinton ever again! You can take that to the bank!!!

Starik
Starik

@MarkVV @SGTGrit Who knows how much influence Slick Willie will have when he moves back in to the White House?  We'll see.

MarkVV
MarkVV

@Starik @MarkVV @SGTGrit With job approval now around 60 percent, it might not be such a bad thing for him to have some influence.

AndyManUSA#45
AndyManUSA#45

"The complaint alleges billionaire convicted pedophileJeffrey Epstein had a woman pickup teenage girls for his famous parties. This is the third attempt the plaintiff has made in filing this particular lawsuit."



Yep, the libs brought up Epstein, didn't they?



Epstein has spent the bulk of his adult life cultivating relationships with the world’s most powerful men. Flight logs show that from 2001 to 2003, Bill Clinton flew on Epstein’s private plane, dubbed “The Lolita Express” by the press, 26 times. After Epstein’s arrest in July 2006, federal tax records show Epstein donated $25,000 to the Clinton Foundation that year.



http://nypost.com/2016/10/09/the-sex-slave-scandal-that-exposed-pedophile-billionaire-jeffrey-epstein/




AndyManUSA#45
AndyManUSA#45

Flight logs and federal tax records, let me guess, hillary doesn't know anything about it, does she?

lvg
lvg

Deplorable comment (below):


"""How do we know he wasn't lying to Billy Bush, who ever the hell he is? Would this not be the perfect opportunity for a compulsive liar to brag on himself to another man in a private conversation? Like fishing and golf scores? Why now are Trump's words being taken as the second coming of George Washington? """

1. Two rape lawsuits for doing precisely what he brags to George w's cousin about in the tape;

2. Endless similar comments to members of the cast during the show;

3. Numerous similar comments to Howard Stern, Trump's mentor;

4. Lewd comments about his daughter and how he is turned on by her;

5. Rape accusation by first wife;

6. Nonstop derogatory comments about women and their bodies;

7. Treats his current wife like she is a piece of property when describing her anatomy;and 

8. All the behaviors of  a sexual abuser and predator.


But the deplorables love him and the cons will vote for the devil over Hillary.

MarkVV
MarkVV

The response of the (remaining) Trump supporters - and Trump himself -to the revelations of Trump’s lewdness and sexual behavior has been two-pronged: denial of the nature of the comments, and deflection.

In the denial, he and they call his comments “locker room talk,” which all males indulge in. (Some say “young men,” an interesting extension of youth to the age of 59.) Not only is that a lie, showing only the environment the author knows and is comfortable with. More importantly, Trump’s talk on the infamous recent tape shows not just talk, but his actual experience in sexual predatory behavior.

The distraction, used again both by Trump and his supporters, is pointing figure at Bill Clinton. Some make the ridiculous claim that it is hypocrisy to attack Trump regarding his behavior, and not do the same about Bill Clinton. So let me make clear this: I condemn any serious sexual misbehavior, including Bill Clinton’s. But there are only two serious candidates for the US presidency at this time: Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.  Trump’s misbehavior has been documented. In the Bill Clinton affair, Hillary was the injured party in marital infidelity.  This attempt to misdirect the attention from Donald Trump’s behavior is dishonorable and appalling.

AndyManUSA#45
AndyManUSA#45

@MarkVV clinton had charges against before he ran for president and I'm willing to bet what ever you want that you voted for him.


I win.

AndyManUSA#45
AndyManUSA#45

It's funny how Nancy O'Dell seems more offended by the comments made afterward than by anything that may, or may not have, occurred. Which brings me to another point, I thought Trump was a liar? How do we know he wasn't lying to Billy Bush, who ever the hell he is? Would this not be the perfect opportunity for a compulsive liar to brag on himself to another man in a private conversation? Like fishing and golf scores? Why now are Trump's words being taken as the second coming of George Washington? 


And why did Nancy stay silent all these years, as though nothing happened?


Don't you liberals wish Juanita, Paula, Kathleen, Monica, Gennifer, Dolly, Sally, Connie, Elizabeth, Lencola, Eileen, etc. etc. etc. had done the same?

cw1960
cw1960

@IReportYouWhine So let Trump be alone with your wife or daughter.  Or maybe they're too old or fat for him.  Your defense of the indefensible says more about you, and it isn't good.

SGTGrit
SGTGrit

With two deeply flawed candidates running for the same office of president of the United States the choice is very simple. Should the voters accept a loud mouthed over aged high school Harry, or a candidate who has repeatedly lied to the American people and placed in jeopardy our national security for as she put it, her personal convenience. Should the voters accept her husband convicted of perjury and impeached by congress as the first husband allowing him a return to the peoples White House he so badly disgraced.

RafeHollister
RafeHollister

Pious Paul and the GOP leadership want to turn the country over to Hillary, because The Donald talks gross and dirty in private.  Go figure.  


How do we know that Hillary doesn't talk gross and dirty in private?

AndyManUSA#45
AndyManUSA#45

If hillary can tolerate a rapist for a husband, I can tolerate a locker room trash talker for a president.


Not that hard to understand.


Unless, of course, you have your head up your..........

cw1960
cw1960

@IReportYouWhine You have no moral high ground any longer. You've lost what little credibility and humanity you ever possessed.

FineousMcDirtyBird
FineousMcDirtyBird

God bless. Sometimes you expect to hit up a comment thread that bears a touch of reasoned debate. No joy here.

IREPORTYOUWHINE is a comment troll of the highest order and I salute you sir! You've dragged a conversation about what makes one fit and dignified enough to lead the free world and managed to blame hurricanes on liberals and white wash through innuendo the utter trash that is your candidate. Bravo.

I never will understand how Bill Clinton's infidelity is a black mark on his wife. Used to be that good Christians admired a woman who vigorously defended her husband. Seems there's something in Ephesians about that. Bill is, probably, going to be the next First Lady. Extolling school kids to eat healthy or tell high schoolers to just say no. For sure he remains the most popular ex-president since Eisenhower, but that's got everything to do with a soiled cigar.

You guys knew what Trump was. A narcissistic, misogynistic, uninformed windbag of a self-promoter whose lack of interest in reality was rivaled only by his delight at being a reality TV star. That's who you wanted to lead the free world. If he wins, enjoy the last remaining days you have left as his first strike with nuclear weapons will come as swift as a tweet once a foreign leader questions the size of his hands. At that point, we'll call our nonsense bickering over abortion, the Supreme Court, and gay marriage a part of the good ol days. You get what you pay for and, in this case, you paid our future for a ten cent candidate.

Eye wonder
Eye wonder

Well said. I do believe you are the hammer hitting the nail squarely on its head.

AndyManUSA#45
AndyManUSA#45

It's come a flood for the last 6 hours straight and now the government has lite my phone up telling me about flash flood warnings. You reckon? We can't figure this out for ourselves? Are y'all bored over there at government central and feeling the need to remind us what our tax payer dollars are up to? You are the idiots, not me. I should be able to send you an alert, when I sense that the idiocy has bubbled up to the surface once again. A tornado yes, but now, we can see the cats and dogs coming down from the sky, we're not going wander out the front door and drown ourselves in the 6 inches of water running down the gutter. We got it, believe me.

AndyManUSA#45
AndyManUSA#45

Yes, it's clinton the rapist versus Trump the locker room trash talker. And, of course, the liberals have come down on the side of the rapist.


Same as they always come down on the side of the racists. Abortion clinics only in black neighborhoods? Police run out of black neighborhoods turning them over to the murderers of black children? 


The most despicable generation.

lvg
lvg

@IReportYouWhine Having a hard time seeing that the deplorables are the only ones left supporting the Orange groper? 

Must be hard.

I bet you still claim Obama is not a legitimate President and Hillary gave state secrets to our enemies and ordered those four people killed in Benghazi.

lvg
lvg

So has Pence discovered that he has a conscious?

Tim Kaine did not go far enough in lambasting and attacking this alt-right hypocrite.

JeffreyEav
JeffreyEav

Kyle. My Pop thought you might cave and vote for Trump. I told him you wouldn't.

cw1960
cw1960

@JeffreyEav Kyle will follow along like a good mindless robot along with the rest of the sniveling sycophants.

AndyManUSA#45
AndyManUSA#45

This "hurricane" may not have wiped Florida off the map, like the libs and government establishment hoped it would, but it is sure is putting some rain on my parade.


Fact

SGTGrit
SGTGrit

Good grief you have the sanctimonious ideologue Bookman, cutting short his weekend to rant on Trumps high school Harry remarks on a hot mic video compliments of the liberal left WaPo. Never a mention of the sex antics of Bill Clinton, who committed far worse as a sitting president. How far have the Democrats of which Trump was once one, fallen in their own morality. This country needs a revival.

MarkVV
MarkVV

@SGTGrit Can't resist talking about Bill Clinton, can you? He is not a candidate here. And how do you know how many sexual attacks Trump has committed? He talks about how he can get away with anything - does that not indicate that he did it more than once?

SGTGrit
SGTGrit

@MarkVV @SGTGrit 

What do you mean Bill Clinton isn't a candidate? Of course he is, do you really think Hillary got this far without him? Are you that dense not to recognize that the only reason Hillary, has stuck with Bill is for her political objective. Geez, if some far left leader told you horse manure was filet mignon you would eat and enjoy every mouth full.

MarkVV
MarkVV

@SGTGrit @MarkVV The one thing about this whole affair is how some people reveal themselves. Those appalled by indecency vs. those defending it. And also people revealing their inability of rational thought. To say that Bill Clinton is a candidate, because Hillary has stuck with him for a political objective is such a colossal inanity, that it speaks volumes. And of course, adding a stupid personal just adds the final touch.  

SGTGrit
SGTGrit

@MarkVV @SGTGrit 

Well if you can't see the hypocrisy in attacking Trump, while failing to do the same for Bill Clinton's abuse of women then you are guilty of defending indecency.

Bon Appitit

SGTGrit
SGTGrit

@Northernindependent @SGTGrit @MarkVV 

Dubious sources don't have my attention. When something creditable comes along I'll pay attention. BTW...Epstein and Bill Clinton were close buddies. Bet ya didn't know that.

lvg
lvg

@SGTGrit @MarkVV indecency is raping 13 year olds along with a convicted pedophile and a "party planner" who would pick up runaways at the Port Authority bus terminal.Now verified by two witnesses.

MarkVV
MarkVV

@SGTGrit @MarkVV You mean if I do not attack specifically any of the many thousands of abusers of women in the US (or do you want me to do it for the whole world?), I cannot attack Trump without being guilty of hypocrisy?Is your brain working at all? One more time, Bill Clinton is not a candidate. Whatever I think about his behavior is beside the point, and the point is the abusive sexual behavior of one of the candidate for the presidency, Donald Trump.

cw1960
cw1960

@SGTGrit You relinquished your moral high ground by defending the indefensible. Trying to deflect the nuclear bomb of Trump's grotesque behavior is almost as lowly and scummy as Trump.